audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[cls]

Manufacturers are slowly integrating DSPs into their amps. I find that it's a good decision naman but be wary as sometimes the added cost of the DSP (DSP amp vs normal amp) is higher than the cost of a dedicated DSP. While a dedicated DSP will also need wires (as you'll factor that in), I'm still biased on separating them if possible.

Mosconi is a great brand and the DSP interface is pretty functional naman. I'd say go with it if the cost of it is better than buying a standalone DSP (there are ones for cheap locally like Firland Audio, Lightning Lab, etc.). As an idea, I'm not really fickle on expensive DSPs vs cheap ones so I'd prefer you go for cheap ones. The realm of professional/studio audio has seen the advent of cheap DSPs for years with no problem.

Hi jhnkvn,
Thank your for your detailed reply. Actually, i bought the 3rd option amp(Hertz hcp4 (730w)) since im really on a budget and i still need to make room for a dsp. Its also cheaper by $130. Now im looking for a decent dsp below 20k. Choices are audison bit ten(19k), mosconi 4-6(19k) and Hertz h8(?). Heard good reviews sa Helix dsp but too pricey for me.


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[jhnkvn]

Thanks for the input jhnkvn...more queries below:
1. Do you think retaining my kicker comp R will be better to give that chest bump but still soft for the SQ type of music?
2. My current amp DLS P40 is a 4channel already where my front and sub was linked. Do you think I still need to add another 4ch with dsp or get a sole dsp only to linked with my P40 amp?
3. Since my P40 is 4ch...it is where my kicker was bridged. Does getting a mono amp for the kicker will be a better choice so to let my front use the P40 solely?

Which of the below set up would you go into?
A. Pioneer 595BT - existing
Focal PS165fx - existing
A new 4ch ampli with dsp - to run the focal mid - NEW
DLS P40 4ch amp for the kicker sub bridged with the new ampli with DSP. - existing

B. Pioneer 595BT - existing
Focal PS165fx - existing
DSP - NEW - bridged with the DLS P40 amp running the focal mid and kicker sub.

C. Pioneer 595BT - existing
Focal PS165fx - existing
DLS P40 4ch amp - existing to run the focal mid
MONO amp for the kicker sub - NEW

D. Pioneer 595BT - existing
Focal PS165fx - existing
DLS P40 4ch amp - to run the focal mid - existing
DSP for the DLS 4ch amp - NEW
MONO amp for the kicker sub - NEW

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1. Trying to integrate the subwoofer is a matter of tuning. What I can guarantee is that a 12" will always "out-thump" a 10" given they're around the same price range (aka that's not a CV Stroker or something) because you have a bigger area = more air displacement = easier to reach a certain dB level.

2. In adding a DSP, there are two ways you can do it:
- Selling your head unit then buying a HU with better tuning options. Newer Pioneer models like the X2850BT at PHP15,000 has time alignment na (thank god for technology advances).
- Or you can throw a amplifier with a DSP chip in it
- purchasing a dedicated DSP (will cost you PHP10,000+)

3. If you're going for Option 1 and 3, it's better to go for a mono amplifier to power your subwoofer. Make sure it isn't Class AB but Class D so you can be efficient (aka it produces more power and also doesn't suck so much power from your alternator).

4. The idea for a DSP is to tune your system properly. However, in order to actually tune them individually, you need to give your speaker drivers a channel each so you can fine tune each driver. This is why you'll need another amplifier either way.

Since if they're not, it's hard to tune. For example, your left tweeter is ear-level while your left midbass is near your foot. Doing time alignment calculations would be suboptimal if you're stuck with tuning them with a passive crossover as any distance applied is applied to both of them. Eh iba distance nila sa tenga mo.

That's why you want the power to have the DSP control that this left tweeter is 10cm away from you while your left midbass is 30cm away naman.

5. Now that you have the components and the schematics, one of the problem there is who'll tune your system. Most newbie installers can't do it. This is where you usually start looking at installers specializing in SQ installations and a good start to look for them is at EMMA competitions (plus, you can hear their creations).

[jhnkvn]

Hi jhnkvn,
Thank your for your detailed reply. Actually, i bought the 3rd option amp(Hertz hcp4 (730w)) since im really on a budget and i still need to make room for a dsp. Its also cheaper by $130. Now im looking for a decent dsp below 20k. Choices are audison bit ten(19k), mosconi 4-6(19k) and Hertz h8(?). Heard good reviews sa Helix dsp but too pricey for me.


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If you don't mind: try going for secondhand ones.

Try to look at the Facebook groups of CASSP or SQ Manila if somebody's selling their DSPs. There's really no advancements from the DSPs of last two years from today after all.

Just remember that the channels matter since you might upgrade over time and your DSP will likely be relevant parin. The more expensive DSPs usually have more channels to accommodate 3-way component systems while the more affordable levels is at 2-way.

There's not much issues AFAIK on DSPs. They're practically plug, install, and forget.

[donskie_0728]

1. Trying to integrate the subwoofer is a matter of tuning. What I can guarantee is that a 12" will always "out-thump" a 10" given they're around the same price range (aka that's not a CV Stroker or something) because you have a bigger area = more air displacement = easier to reach a certain dB level.

2. In adding a DSP, there are two ways you can do it:
- Selling your head unit then buying a HU with better tuning options. Newer Pioneer models like the X2850BT at PHP15,000 has time alignment na (thank god for technology advances).
- Or you can throw a amplifier with a DSP chip in it
- purchasing a dedicated DSP (will cost you PHP10,000+)

3. If you're going for Option 1 and 3, it's better to go for a mono amplifier to power your subwoofer. Make sure it isn't Class AB but Class D so you can be efficient (aka it produces more power and also doesn't suck so much power from your alternator).

4. The idea for a DSP is to tune your system properly. However, in order to actually tune them individually, you need to give your speaker drivers a channel each so you can fine tune each driver. This is why you'll need another amplifier either way.

Since if they're not, it's hard to tune. For example, your left tweeter is ear-level while your left midbass is near your foot. Doing time alignment calculations would be suboptimal if you're stuck with tuning them with a passive crossover as any distance applied is applied to both of them. Eh iba distance nila sa tenga mo.

That's why you want the power to have the DSP control that this left tweeter is 10cm away from you while your left midbass is 30cm away naman.

5. Now that you have the components and the schematics, one of the problem there is who'll tune your system. Most newbie installers can't do it. This is where you usually start looking at installers specializing in SQ installations and a good start to look for them is at EMMA competitions (plus, you can hear their creations).

Thanks for a very detailed explanation Sir jhnkvn...my current head unit is a Pioneer avh-x595bt. It is the 2017 model that has the Time alignment features and auto EQ. During installation of my seps and amp my installer already set the TA considering the level of the driver and delay.

The installer of my current set up was JA Audiotek which is based here in Pangasinan. He was an active emma play same with Jon and Tim and the likes. During the last EMMA they again got some major awards for their SQ entry.

Now I am quite clear that I may not need the DSP now since my HU has capable of tuning. My plan now is to add another mono amp to power my subs and let my P40 4ch amp for my focal seps. Do you think its a good upgrade?

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[cls]

I dont mind. Thats actually a good idea. Sayang nga I saw sa olx selling a brand new audison bit ten for 13k but sold na right away when i inquired. Sige will check the Facebook page. Thanks again! Cheers

If you don't mind: try going for secondhand ones.

Try to look at the Facebook groups of CASSP or SQ Manila if somebody's selling their DSPs. There's really no advancements from the DSPs of last two years from today after all.

Just remember that the channels matter since you might upgrade over time and your DSP will likely be relevant parin. The more expensive DSPs usually have more channels to accommodate 3-way component systems while the more affordable levels is at 2-way.

There's not much issues AFAIK on DSPs. They're practically plug, install, and forget.

[jhnkvn]

Thanks for a very detailed explanation Sir jhnkvn...my current head unit is a Pioneer avh-x595bt. It is the 2017 model that has the Time alignment features and auto EQ. During installation of my seps and amp my installer already set the TA considering the level of the driver and delay.

The installer of my current set up was JA Audiotek which is based here in Pangasinan. He was an active emma play same with Jon and Tim and the likes. During the last EMMA they again got some major awards for their SQ entry.

Now I am quite clear that I may not need the DSP now since my HU has capable of tuning. My plan now is to add another mono amp to power my subs and let my P40 4ch amp for my focal seps. Do you think its a good upgrade?

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Oh, my apologies. As many people know, I'm not that familiar with head unit models nowadays since I've been out of car audio for a while now. The theories behind audio still remains the same tho so I help people out on that :D

Yup. Definitely a better upgrade than throwing coaxials at the back or changing subwoofers. Just add a mono amplifier (no need to be too expensive), tell your installer you want it "2-way full-active", and have him tune it. Hopefully, he won't charge a lot for his services (on that: tune first before paying; be a satisfied customer first) but tuning is definitely pricey as with all professional services. Some people enter their cars sa EMMA in partnership with their installer since it kind of guarantees that the installer will take your tuning seriously and it allows you more haggling room on the labor part ;)

Again: to get good sound, it's 90% tuning 10% equipment.

[sientobente]

Hi jhnkvn,
Thank your for your detailed reply. Actually, i bought the 3rd option amp(Hertz hcp4 (730w)) since im really on a budget and i still need to make room for a dsp. Its also cheaper by $130. Now im looking for a decent dsp below 20k. Choices are audison bit ten(19k), mosconi 4-6(19k) and Hertz h8(?). Heard good reviews sa Helix dsp but too pricey for me.


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I'd get the Hertz DSP. That is actually a clone from it's sister brand, Audison, from it's Bit One model. Bit One can do a full-active 3-way.


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[donskie_0728]

Oh, my apologies. As many people know, I'm not that familiar with head unit models nowadays since I've been out of car audio for a while now. The theories behind audio still remains the same tho so I help people out on that :D

Yup. Definitely a better upgrade than throwing coaxials at the back or changing subwoofers. Just add a mono amplifier (no need to be too expensive), tell your installer you want it "2-way full-active", and have him tune it. Hopefully, he won't charge a lot for his services (on that: tune first before paying; be a satisfied customer first) but tuning is definitely pricey as with all professional services. Some people enter their cars sa EMMA in partnership with their installer since it kind of guarantees that the installer will take your tuning seriously and it allows you more haggling room on the labor part ;)

Again: to get good sound, it's 90% tuning 10% equipment.

Thanks again Sir jhnkvn...its a big help for me.

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[cls]

I'd get the Hertz DSP. That is actually a clone from it's sister brand, Audison, from it's Bit One model. Bit One can do a full-active 3-way.


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Same price or lower than audison? Bit ten is 19k while bit one is around 48k.

Another question, how much usually would an installer charge tuning lets say we bring our own dsp? Ty


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[sientobente]

Same price or lower than audison? Bit ten is 19k while bit one is around 48k.

Another question, how much usually would an installer charge tuning lets say we bring our own dsp? Ty


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I am not sure if these prices are updated:
Hertz H8 -30k
Helix DSP - 26.8k

For tuning, some shops charge 500 up. Installation fee is separate pa. If you join car audio EBs, there is a high chance someone would love to tune your car for free. Just not sure who organizes those anymore. Dati active KAC or si Boss Paeng sa mga ganyan.

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