audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[jhnkvn]

Which is better pioneer 309 or jbl gto/gt5? Sidefiring or L ported enclosure? Thanks.

The Pioneer is more efficient. It probably has a lighter cone so the magnet doesn't need to be bigger to move a heavier weight. It'll be louder than the JBL given a certain amount of power under the maximum linear travel (xmax). The JBL GT5-12 has more linear travel (xmax) than the Pioneer, it will be louder than the Pioneer given enough power to reach its limits.

Both side-firing and L-types are ported enclosures. What's better depends on your goals. If you aren't going to DIY it, you should ask your installer why the two choices since meron sila reason for preferring one over the other.

[ralphs]

I dislike powered subwoofers in a car is because -- they're expensive. In other words, given a certain budget, a purchased subwoofer driver thrown into a properly modeled DIY box will be better performance-wise.

A subwoofer's performance is highly dependent on its enclosure. The better you construct the enclosure, the better it performs. In home audio, why is an entry-level Velodyne Impact 10" subwoofer expensive at 21,000php? Because the box is very well-made -- it is internally braced, thicker MDF walls, better lacquer paint to be more aesthetically looking, etc.

So I'll give you these driver recommendations and find yourself an installer who can fabricate the box. I'll also give you the box dimensions.
- Infinity 860W (2,700php) * 0.6 cu.ft sealed box
- JBL GT5-12 (3,200php) * 1 cu.ft sealed box

The Infinity subwoofer is ridiculously compact. The JBL will be bigger.
The JBL will be more efficient in throwing bass. If you can spare the boot space, go for it.

If you don't like the above, get a slim-type subwoofer then. I won't recommend them but some people find it fits their needs.
---

Keep the Pioneer speakers.
Purchase a 4-channel amplifier.
- front 6.5" speakers to 2-channels
- subwoofer will be bridged on the 2-channels
6x9" coaxial speakers at the rear be connected to the head unit.

What amplifier should you get? Anything that fits your budget of around 10,000php. A JBL A604 should be around 6,000php if you want a same-brand setup (JBL and Infinity are sister companies). Your subwoofer + box cost will be <5,000php depending on how well-made your box is and I do suggest purchasing a lower-priced amplifier and using the rest for your labor and wiring expenses.

Thanks for this input sir jhnkvn.

I might just go after the slim subwoofer because I don't want to lose my 3rd row backseat. But I will try to fit the enclosure in the available space at the back of the 3rd row.

After reading this thread, it seems that I should go for separates as well. The longer I read, the more expenses start to pop-up.. So I stopped and just ask.

Questions:
1- For a sealed box design, does the LxWxH matter? or as long as the volume (in cu.ft.) is met, there should be no issue?
2- For separates, would the JBL GTO 609C be ok with the recommended amp (JBL A604)?
3- For the subwoofer, I am looking at JBL MS-10Sd2slim rated at 250W RMS (1000w peak) at 2+2ohm. Swak na kaya yan?

[jhnkvn]

Thanks for this input sir jhnkvn.

I might just go after the slim subwoofer because I don't want to lose my 3rd row backseat. But I will try to fit the enclosure in the available space at the back of the 3rd row.

After reading this thread, it seems that I should go for separates as well. The longer I read, the more expenses start to pop-up.. So I stopped and just ask.

Questions:
1- For a sealed box design, does the LxWxH matter? or as long as the volume (in cu.ft.) is met, there should be no issue?
2- For separates, would the JBL GTO 609C be ok with the recommended amp (JBL A604)?
3- For the subwoofer, I am looking at JBL MS-10Sd2slim rated at 250W RMS (1000w peak) at 2+2ohm. Swak na kaya yan?

1. Does the dimensions matter? No. What matters is the air volume inside the box. Actually, you don't even need to meet suggested manufacturer box enclosure recommendations. For example, I'm on a 1.2 cu.ft. sealed box rather than the recommended 1.5 cu.ft.

In fact, manufacturers usually recommend a smaller box than what's ideal. Why? Because it pushes power handling up and makes the box less efficient. This way, people all around the world won't be hitting their maximum linear cone travel at just 300W of power or some small-ish number and then sending it for warranty claims based on "mechanical failure". For the manufacturers, a less efficient subwoofer means less warranty claims and hence.. more profit for the manufacturer rather than provisioning cash for warranty claims. Besides, if you see a subwoofer that's "optimal" at 1.0 cu.ft you'll get that over a subwoofer that has its "optimal" air volume at 1.5 cu.ft. right?

2. Yeah. I have not much preference for speakers really. If you want to go Pioneer, by all means go for it. Go for the speakers that make you happy.. brand differentiation doesn't really start unless it's 10,000php upwards.

3. Sure, I won't complain over it. Ask Perfect Circle first if they have stocks on hand. The price-point in USD seems attractive enough if they managed to keep the price point at the same level. Caution though.. slim-type subwoofers aren't usually cheap.. they're expensive truth be told for their performance since habol mo is their shallow profile at the expense of a smaller magnet. Alternatives in the market include Dominations RS12 and Polk Audio MM1240. The Polk Audio is a favorite amongst the local car audio community and I've seen a lot of installations include them in 2012.

[jhnkvn]

Sometimes, you just need to be more creative in the mounting of the subwoofer. Problem is custom fiberglass fabrication is expensive since nobody who's good at them will price their services low.. (market supply and demand lang yan) so think about your wallet first before pursuing any project.

But for inspiration, I'll share some of my friends (which I don't think will complain if I use their pictures) who done their project installs without compromising the trunk/3rd row. Both installations are done by SimpleSounds in Antipolo coincidentally.


Monch's setup is probably my all-time favorite. Installed at the trunk of a Hyundai Tucson. The amplifier wall doesn't eat up too much space while the subwoofer enclosure is flush-mounted on the side.

The other one is Dom's setup inside a Kia Pride. The key here is that the subwoofer enclosure is a small sealed cylindrical so that the installer can mount it at the center cavity of the spare tire.

Want an easier mounting? Go for smaller subwoofers. A 8" subwoofer will be a whole lot easier to install in tight spaces versus a 12". However, creation of bass is still air displacement so the bigger diameter cone will still win out if we talk about performance. So balance accordingly.

I've also seen subwoofer enclosures below the passenger seats and at the passenger-side foot well.

[Olaf]

Hi Sir jhnkvn,

I have lancer itlog.. I've spent quite some time already reading your recommendations.. Hopefully you could help me on my planned set-up for my car.

I already have HU pioneer deh-p6900UB and a focal polyglass 165v1s component speaker. Pero hindi ko pa po to sila na install..

My goal set-up is SQ inside the cabin while driving.. Hindi ko po need ang subwoofer kasi I need space for my trunk.. My plan set-up is tweeters on A-pillar parallel to the windshield, midrange on my front doors and woofers on my rear doors..

Here are my questions:

1. Can I use a 6.5" midrange speaker as a woofer on my rear doors?
2. If I use a 4 channel amp, can I bridge the 2 channels for my woofer speakers at the rear door?
3. The rated nominal power of my speaker is 70W.what is the power of amp i should used that is enough for my speakers? what brand can you suggest sir?
4. As for my HU, can I specifically tune that my tweeters are only for high freq, my front speakers are for midrange freq, and for rear speakers low freq only? how to do this?

I could spend more with this system if you have suggestions of what type, brand, etc. for SQ inside the cabin..

Thank you so much Sir for your time reading this..

[docgorio]

Hi!! I was trying to look for the post I put in a ways back but can't find it for some reason...

The car is a Mercedes Benz W124... I plan to install stock 4in in front and 6x9 rears... For a head unit I'm thinking Blaupunkt Cupertino to maintain a Teutonic look in the cabin...

Questions:

With a budget of PhP 20-25K which includes the head unit, what speakers will do?? DLS?? Focal??

I don't want eyeball jiggling, tooth shattering boom boxes... All I'm after is clarity... I'm an 80s guy and grew up with that music ranging from Billy Joel to Hall and Oates to SpyroGyra and Al Jarreau... Oh and throw in some Astrud Gilberto also...

Ok a small powered slim mount under seat sub will do ONLY if it will just enhance the bass response and not create multiple micro cerebral bleeding episodes...


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[jhnkvn]

Hi Sir jhnkvn,

I have lancer itlog.. I've spent quite some time already reading your recommendations.. Hopefully you could help me on my planned set-up for my car.

I already have HU pioneer deh-p6900UB and a focal polyglass 165v1s component speaker. Pero hindi ko pa po to sila na install..

My goal set-up is SQ inside the cabin while driving.. Hindi ko po need ang subwoofer kasi I need space for my trunk.. My plan set-up is tweeters on A-pillar parallel to the windshield, midrange on my front doors and woofers on my rear doors..

Here are my questions:

1. Can I use a 6.5" midrange speaker as a woofer on my rear doors?
2. If I use a 4 channel amp, can I bridge the 2 channels for my woofer speakers at the rear door?
3. The rated nominal power of my speaker is 70W.what is the power of amp i should used that is enough for my speakers? what brand can you suggest sir?
4. As for my HU, can I specifically tune that my tweeters are only for high freq, my front speakers are for midrange freq, and for rear speakers low freq only? how to do this?

I could spend more with this system if you have suggestions of what type, brand, etc. for SQ inside the cabin..

Thank you so much Sir for your time reading this..

1. A 6.5" driver is usually classified as a midbass/midwoofer rather than a midrange. Since the 6.5" is a midbass driver, yes you may use it on your rear doors.

2. The question here is why would you bridge it? It's easier to simply send individual power channels to each driver. You have 2-channels and you have 2 woofers (one on each door).

3. I don't look at nominal RMS ratings of speakers, it's one of those gray areas that once you've been in this hobby for a while you'll learn how insignificant it is. I do recommend at least a 50W amplifier for most people with my recommended at 75W.

But let's say you just have 30W versus a 50W amplifier, when all else is the same, the difference is just 2.2dB. Whether that additional decibel is important depends on you.

4. You cannot in your head unit because you do not have enough crossover functions.

---

Sa totoo lang.. malabo yun system mo and I attribute it because you're using the wrong terms in your post -- especially that midrange/midbass part. So I'll try to set your system up from scratch with recommendations..

Since you have a Pioneer DEH-P6900UB and a Focal Polyglass 165V1 component speaker..

For install, throw the Focal Polyglass at front -- tweeters near ear-level and midbass at the doors. For tweeter installation, I'll go for the cheaper option, I believe the Polyglass tweeter comes with a plastic enclosure so just throw that sa windshield mo, point the driver-side tweeter towards your passenger's head rest and your passenger tweeter towards your driver's head rest, and double-tape the bottom. Custom fabricated A-pillars aren't cheap.. even if they come from the installers in Banawe they'll still cost a few thousand and so.

The set also comes with a passive crossover that filters frequencies for the tweeter and midbass.. you can just install that anywhere where it's convenient. Some people install it directly on the doors while some throws it under the dashboard.

For the back, keep the speakers stock. If you don't have back speakers, feel free to get the ones in front. I'm not really fond of coaxials at the back and what I usually like are just midbass drivers. The problem with coaxials at the back is because the inclusion of a tweeter makes our head "aware" of its location and this drags our soundstage lower and at the back.

For the amplifier, the best one is something that fits your budget. Get 4-channels for flexibility's sake in the event you might have a subwoofer in the future. For now, use 2-channels for the front speakers and 2-channels for the back speakers.

For the tuning, I will recommend you do a slight front fade setting. This will make more of your sound emanate at the front speakers rather than the back.

[jhnkvn]

Hi!! I was trying to look for the post I put in a ways back but can't find it for some reason...

The car is a Mercedes Benz W124... I plan to install stock 4in in front and 6x9 rears... For a head unit I'm thinking Blaupunkt Cupertino to maintain a Teutonic look in the cabin...

Questions:

With a budget of PhP 20-25K which includes the head unit, what speakers will do?? DLS?? Focal??

I don't want eyeball jiggling, tooth shattering boom boxes... All I'm after is clarity... I'm an 80s guy and grew up with that music ranging from Billy Joel to Hall and Oates to SpyroGyra and Al Jarreau... Oh and throw in some Astrud Gilberto also...

Ok a small powered slim mount under seat sub will do ONLY if it will just enhance the bass response and not create multiple micro cerebral bleeding episodes...


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Depends on whether you'll stick with your 4" stock speaker mounting or not. If yes, your options will be quite limited. If not, you have more options to stick to. Truth is, there aren't much 4" drivers out in the market since the universal midbass diameter nowadays is 6.5".

If you plan on retaining the 4" mounting, you will need a subwoofer for your lows. This is because your 4" speaker is incapable of displacing air efficiently to create bass.

You can back read a bit and you'll see I'm not a fan of under-the-seat active subwoofers per se. But if you won't compromise on the space, then I guess it'll be a viable alternative. Don't worry, under-the-seat subwoofers won't go loud -- they're not designed to.

Still, your first step is to get yourself an installer. Tell him what you want and go from there what he recommends you put in your system. Once you get a component list, you can then revisit me in this thread.

[Olaf]

1. A 6.5" driver is usually classified as a midbass/midwoofer rather than a midrange. Since the 6.5" is a midbass driver, yes you may use it on your rear doors.

2. The question here is why would you bridge it? It's easier to simply send individual power channels to each driver. You have 2-channels and you have 2 woofers (one on each door).

3. I don't look at nominal RMS ratings of speakers, it's one of those gray areas that once you've been in this hobby for a while you'll learn how insignificant it is. I do recommend at least a 50W amplifier for most people with my recommended at 75W.

But let's say you just have 30W versus a 50W amplifier, when all else is the same, the difference is just 2.2dB. Whether that additional decibel is important depends on you.

4. You cannot in your head unit because you do not have enough crossover functions.

---

Sa totoo lang.. malabo yun system mo and I attribute it because you're using the wrong terms in your post -- especially that midrange/midbass part. So I'll try to set your system up from scratch with recommendations..

Since you have a Pioneer DEH-P6900UB and a Focal Polyglass 165V1 component speaker..

For install, throw the Focal Polyglass at front -- tweeters near ear-level and midbass at the doors. For tweeter installation, I'll go for the cheaper option, I believe the Polyglass tweeter comes with a plastic enclosure so just throw that sa windshield mo, point the driver-side tweeter towards your passenger's head rest and your passenger tweeter towards your driver's head rest, and double-tape the bottom. Custom fabricated A-pillars aren't cheap.. even if they come from the installers in Banawe they'll still cost a few thousand and so.

The set also comes with a passive crossover that filters frequencies for the tweeter and midbass.. you can just install that anywhere where it's convenient. Some people install it directly on the doors while some throws it under the dashboard.

For the back, keep the speakers stock. If you don't have back speakers, feel free to get the ones in front. I'm not really fond of coaxials at the back and what I usually like are just midbass drivers. The problem with coaxials at the back is because the inclusion of a tweeter makes our head "aware" of its location and this drags our soundstage lower and at the back.

For the amplifier, the best one is something that fits your budget. Get 4-channels for flexibility's sake in the event you might have a subwoofer in the future. For now, use 2-channels for the front speakers and 2-channels for the back speakers.

For the tuning, I will recommend you do a slight front fade setting. This will make more of your sound emanate at the front speakers rather than the back.

Salamat po Sir for your prompt reply..

Sorry po Sir, talagang newbie po ako dito.. This would be my very first set-up kaya kailangan ko po expert advise nyo po..

Now I will focus on your suggested set-up..by this Sir, I will not use anymore my stock rear speaker and use a subwoofer.

Questions:

1. As I've read on your previous comment, is JBL GT5-A604 amplifier suitable for my HU and speakers?
2. Now this time, the 2 channel will be bridge na talaga po for subwoofer, tama po ba?
3. What subwoofer po will you recommend?
4. Or shall I buy a mono amp for my subwoofer?

Sobrang laki po ng tulong na maiibigay niyo po sa mga taong katulad ko nga bagohan pa lng..

Salamat po ulit..

[jhnkvn]

Salamat po Sir for your prompt reply..

Sorry po Sir, talagang newbie po ako dito.. This would be my very first set-up kaya kailangan ko po expert advise nyo po..

Now I will focus on your suggested set-up..by this Sir, I will not use anymore my stock rear speaker and use a subwoofer.

Questions:

1. As I've read on your previous comment, is JBL GT5-A604 amplifier suitable for my HU and speakers?
2. Now this time, the 2 channel will be bridge na talaga po for subwoofer, tama po ba?
3. What subwoofer po will you recommend?
4. Or shall I buy a mono amp for my subwoofer?

Sobrang laki po ng tulong na maiibigay niyo po sa mga taong katulad ko nga bagohan pa lng..

Salamat po ulit..

1. Yes, it's a suitable amplifier. Hindi naman ako particular sa mga amplifier brands -- if you want to try out Lightning Lab's 4-channel amplifier, I wouldn't stop you ;)
2. Yes. You'll use 2-channels for the front.. and 2-channels bridged for the subwoofer.
3. I'm highly biased on JBL's GT5-12 subwoofers for the budget minded (<3k) and their P122 subwoofers at the 8k price region.
4. I will recommend you try a 4-channel amplifier first before ponying up for a mono. Gawin mo nalang yan "future upgrade" kung kinulang ka pa.