E10 Ethanol, bad for your engine & economy? [MERGED]

[Karding]

Ang pinagtataka ko lang, kahit na may Ethanol blend ang gas bakit hindi bumababa and presyo ng gas? for example, nung 1994 pa may Ethanol ang gas sa US stations. But yet, the prices are the same. So, nasaan ang "savings" na tinatawag ng mga Ethanol producers and Oilers?

Kahit yata tubeg ihalo sa gas ganun pa din ang prices :bwahaha:

[falken]

Ang pinagtataka ko lang, kahit na may Ethanol blend ang gas bakit hindi bumababa and presyo ng gas? for example, nung 1994 pa may Ethanol ang gas sa US stations. But yet, the prices are the same. So, nasaan ang "savings" na tinatawag ng mga Ethanol producers and Oilers?

Kahit yata tubeg ihalo sa gas ganun pa din ang prices :bwahaha:

Nasa bulsa ng gas station owners.
Dapat naman talaga kahit papaano may konting savings, lalo na ngayong $65/bbl ang crude oil compared to Ethanol $22/bbl.

[Mojo]

Karding

hindi naman goal ng pag halo ng ethanol ng gas is cost reduction, more like forex savings at import substitution.

Kasi nga ethanol is not cheap to produce, but as petroleum prices rise it becomes more attractive, pero same dilemna din yan ng oil refineries, as they produce more ethanol, drill/extract oil from expensive wells, you need capital investment at cost per barrell increases.

Kaya ang mahal ng Petroleum prices ngayon, kasi nag bubuffer na ang opec ng pera para sa pag drill/extract sa mga oil deposits na mahal i extract per barrel para lang I meet ang world demand.

sa ethanol ganun din, kailangan ng capital/refinery plus raw supply ng biomass para secrued ang supply, kaya ganun presyo kasi accounted na ang lahat ng mga ganun.

[Mojo]

kaya pag ginawa natin 10% blend ethanol sigurado tataas ang price ng ethanol kasi nga ganun ang batas sa economics. para ma meet ang demand, expensive sources ang pagkukunan pag hindi na kayanan ng cheapest source

[Karding]

Karding

hindi naman goal ng pag halo ng ethanol ng gas is cost reduction, more like forex savings at import substitution.

Kasi nga ethanol is not cheap to produce,

Please read:

Ethanol is a homegrown fuel that results in job creation, increased farm income, improved air quality, and greater energy independence by reducing imports of foreign oil.

Kaya nga, import substitition is supposed to mean savings dahil hindi na dependent sa foreign oil. Well, ito ang argument ng Ethanol producers.

Pero kagaya ng sabi ko, walang epekto ang Ethanol na yan sa prices dahil 1994 pag nagumpisa mag Ethanol ang ibang Gas stations sa US pero wala namang epek sa prices.

Green lang talaga ang nagpapataas ng oil prices.

Eto Mojo, magandang basahin ito kung saan nabanggit ang cost savings kapag nag ethanol.

http://ethanol.org/

[Karding]

As I've mentioned earlier, Ethanol is replacing MTBE. That was the original plan and not to reduce cost.

California was one of the first states to ban the gasoline additive methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) after it was detected in ground water. Ethanol, a non-petroleum product usually made from corn, is being used in place of MTBE. Gasoline without MTBE is more expensive to produce and requires refineries to change the way they produce and distribute gasoline. Some supply dislocations and price surges occurred in the summer of 2003 as the State moved away from MTBE. Similar problems have also occurred in past fuel transitions.

Page last modified on Fri Aug 20 2004 10:43:19 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time). http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/brochure...mer/primer.htm


But yet, this statement contradicts the above:

American-made, renewable ethanol directly displaces the amount of crude oil we need to import, offering our country critically needed independence and security from foreign sources of energy.

Current U.S. ethanol production of 3.5 billion gallons per year can reduce gasoline imports by 35% and effectively extends gasoline supplies at a time when refining capacity is at its maximum. The 5 billion gallon ethanol production level contemplated in the Renewable Fuels Standard could reduce oil imports by nearly 350,000 barrels per day.


Ethanol is key to reducing our country’s trade deficit in crude oil, a figure that has been steadily increasing.

http://ethanol.org/energy.html page is current.

Economics shouldnt be that hard. Produce your product locally and minimize importing, could only mean savings. But GREED supersedes economics.

[yebo]

ever seen an oilman? ako nakakita na, ceo ng unocal. mukhang buwaya. need i say more?

[Juan Tamad]

New oil firms import 2.5 M liters of ethanol from Brazil

By MYRNA M. VELASCO


To jumpstart the utilization of ethanol as blend to gasoline products, the country’s small oil companies have imported ethanol from Brazil initially at 2.5 million liters, in time for the scheduled introduction of the product in the market by next month.

A second shipment of a higher volume of 5.0 million liters is also coming in November, to sustain the market’s needs, according to SeaOil president Glen Yu.

Pressed on how much is the acquisition cost of the ethanol product on a per liter basis, the oil firms which have planned of using it as additive by at least 10-percent blend in at least 400 gasoline stations by next month — to include Flying V and Unioil, said it’s not actually that cheap if compared to prevailing cost of gasoline.

But they noted that it will bring cost savings to consumers in the form of mileage efficiency; such as through improvement in octane ratings.

Initial estimates have indicated that if the targeted efficiency of the vehicle’s run would be achieved, this would translate to an equivalent P0.70 per liter savings for the motorists.

Yu said importation is currently the option for them, since much of the alternative fuels, which it could utilize either as blend or replacement to oil products are still under development. It would be noted that the first ethanol plant would still still be up for commercial operation in 2007.

Tapping alternative fuels has been one of the government’s policy direction to partly address the raging problem of escalating oil prices in the world market.

Brazil is currently the world’s largest ethanol producer; and is even using the product as a replacement fuel; and as reports put, this has been giving the country a lot of cost savings, especially at this time when global oil prices are on steady surge.

Its foray into ethanol production started way back the 70’s; as an upshot of the first oil shock which sent import-dependent market literally begging for supply. Reports have it that from the 1970s to the late ‘90s, ethanol yields per acre in Brazil had risen from 242 to 593 gallons.

With the importation mode being embraced by the new oil players, the other side of the argument being set forth is on whether or not estimated cost reductions would be realized; since freight alone may already eat up a significant chunk of the costs. It was further stressed that this may become a self-defeating strategy if one has to take it from goals of cornering in the much-needed foreign exchange savings and bids for the country’s energy independence.

A study earlier commissioned by the United States Agency for International Development — Sustainable Energy Development Program (USAID — SEDP) for the Philippine government entitled Techno-Economic Assessment of Ethanol as Alternative Transportation Fuel; indicated that the cost of ethanol production using molasses as feedstock is estimated at P16 to 24 per liter for feedstock costs of P2 to 3 per kilogram.

The study also set forth that sugarcane and corn were found to be economically suitable for fuel ethanol production. Project blueprints already set out by government and private sector, however, give preference to sugarcane, via the use of molasses as feedstock in ethanol production.

[RafRaf]

I guess the question is who will be saving... who ends up with the extra money? Is it the consumers or the oilers or the government?

And I guess ethanol for gasolune isn't what biodiesel is for diesel.

[wac3]

guys recently, seaoil announced that all their gasoline products will be mixed with ethanol starting september 1 yata. what is ethanol and how does it affect the mixture in gasoline? i think the government will impose the law that all gasoline products here must have ethanol by year 2006 yata eh.