Mitsubishi Montero Sudden Acceleration Accidents [MERGED]

**vvti2.0** · December 12th, 2015 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by markshoti

Posible po ba ang SUA sa MT?

Yup, start mo na nakaengage ang gear. Sabay apak sa accelerator.

**frostmourn** · December 12th, 2015 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Luap

Mas maganda gawin ng monti owners, ambag ambag kayo ng pasak sa bunganga ni kabayad. Di titigil yan hanggang walang suhol. Ambunan nyo na rin si Dominic Almirol pambili tshirt. Mukhang nakaliitan na nya yung mga t-shirt na suot nya hehehehe. Sigurado yang si frostmourn magbibigay ng malaki yan, big time yan, haciendero hehehe

Hahaha bigtime sa kalokohan lang sir! :D :banghead: hehehe.

Oo nga hano. Marami pa man din ako 25 cents na pupuno sa bunganga ni almelor at de castro! :p hahaha

**_Cathy_** · December 12th, 2015 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by vvti2.0

Yup, start mo na nakaengage ang gear. Sabay apak sa accelerator.

I don't understand why some people leave the car on gear when parking the vehicle. I always leave mine on neutral except on inclined parking.

**lacson** · December 12th, 2015 10:32 PM

Michael Barr an embedded software expert has already proven that bad software programming in the Denso ECU of Toyotas caused SUA. After his testimony in court Toyota was penalized 1.2 billion dollars. Here are links to his testimony, good reading for those interested in technical things. There is a portion there regarding brake override that failed because it was part of the program that controls the throttle opening. If the software fails at that point, the brake override does not get triggered and SUA results. His recommendation there was that the brake override portion should have been installed in a separate chip.

If I'm not wrong, does the Montero have Denso ECUs?

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Librar...r_REDACTED.pdf

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Librar...L_SCRUBBED.pdf

Here's the website for their engineering firm. This is the company that needs to carry out the test on the Montero as they have the experience already. They even found the specific issue that caused the SUA which NASA could not find.

Embedded Systems Experts | Embedded Systems Experts

**niky** · December 12th, 2015 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by lacson

Michael Barr an embedded software expert has already proven that bad software programming in the Denso ECU of Toyotas caused SUA. After his testimony in court Toyota was penalized 1.2 billion dollars. Here are links to his testimony, good reading for those interested in technical things. There is a portion there regarding brake override that failed because it was part of the program that controls the throttle opening. If the software fails at that point, the brake override does not get triggered and SUA results. His recommendation there was that the brake override portion should have been installed in a separate chip.

If I'm not wrong, does the Montero have Denso ECUs?

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Librar...r_REDACTED.pdf

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Librar...L_SCRUBBED.pdf

Here's the website for their engineering firm. This is the company that needs to carry out the test on the Montero as they have the experience already. They even found the specific issue that caused the SUA which NASA could not find.

Embedded Systems Experts | Embedded Systems Experts

He's proven that the possibility is there, that the software's error-checking was not robust. There is no analysis on the probability of it happening. But his testimony is definitely more convincing than the one claiming it was a throttle short (where they did the "simulation" on ABC news where that idiot reporter claimed it was actual SUA). I'm waiting to see if Toyota has a rebuttal for Barr, but I think they've resigned to settling with the plaintiffs rather than fighting this one.

This is after it has been proven that the majority of Toyota cases that were not driver error were due to sticking throttles and incorrect dealer-installed floor mats.

Also, the brake-override system does not control the brakes. It only cuts power to the engine. The brakes will still work if the brake override is not working, it's just that the engine will not cut out.

Older Montero Sport units locally did not have any brake over-ride system.

**valskie01** · December 12th, 2015 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by vvti2.0

Yup, start mo na nakaengage ang gear. Sabay apak sa accelerator.

Sa kia rio 2012 model na m/t. Yung cant start the engine without depressing the clutch.

**markshoti** · December 12th, 2015 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by vvti2.0

Yup, start mo na nakaengage ang gear. Sabay apak sa accelerator.

This is too dumb for a driver to do. Ang basics ng pag start sa manual is put the gear on neutral then tapak sa clutch and break bago mag start. So if you follow the basics, imposible ang SUA sa manual?

**lacson** · December 12th, 2015 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by niky

He's proven that the possibility is there, that the software's error-checking was not robust. There is no analysis on the probability of it happening.

This is after it has been proven that the majority of Toyota cases that were not driver error were due to sticking throttles and incorrect dealer-installed floor mats.

Also, the brake-override system does not control the brakes. It only cuts power to the engine. The brakes will still work if the brake override is not working, it's just that the engine will not cut out.

Older Montero Sport units locally did not have any brake over-ride system.

Read the articles I provided and come back and comment after. The brake override is exactly not for the brakes but to cut power to the engine. That's why it said if the program locks up with the throttle at open, the brake override will not work to cut power off, that would result in sudden unintended acceleration.

Error handling is very important in any software and even so in critical embedded system (systems that could cause injury or death if they fail). A vehicle's ECU or ECM is a critical embedded system and has no room for error.

**spotdog11** · December 12th, 2015 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by markshoti

This is too dumb for a driver to do. Ang basics ng pag start sa manual is put the gear on neutral then tapak sa clutch and break bago mag start. So if you follow the basics, imposible ang SUA sa manual?

Surprisingly, there was a montero MT included in the montero sua blog a few years ago. Hehehe.

**spotdog11** · December 12th, 2015 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by lacson

Read the articles I provided and come back and comment after. The brake override is exactly not for the brakes but to cut power to the engine. That's why it said if the program locks up with the throttle at open, the brake override will not work to cut power off, that would result in sudden unintended acceleration.

Error handling is very important in any software and even so in critical embedded system (systems that could cause injury or death if they fail). A vehicle's ECU or ECM is a critical embedded system and has no room for error.

Thats exactly what sir Niky said. The brake override cuts power to the engine. Read his post again. However, the point is that even if there is failure of the brake override or in cars without brake override, the brake is still stronger than the engine and stopping a car is no problem.