how do lexus cars really compare to european cars?

**slyfox** · September 15th, 2013 05:01 AM

i'm thinking of getting one. but people say it's just like buying a glorified camry. the pricing and the features of lexus cars are pretty great tho. especially when compared to their european counterparts. but is it really worth spending that much more for a japanese car? or do the europeans still rule when it comes to prestige and driving dynamics? thanks in advance for your replies

**jhnkvn** · September 15th, 2013 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by slyfox

i'm thinking of getting one. but people say it's just like buying a glorified camry. the pricing and the features of lexus cars are pretty great tho. especially when compared to their european counterparts. but is it really worth spending that much more for a japanese car? or do the europeans still rule when it comes to prestige and driving dynamics? thanks in advance for your replies

Driving Dynamics?

Prestige? Well, the uninformed ones are all "oohh... BMW.. ohh Mercedes..", for the informed, it's "oohh, LX570..."

Personally, I view it on par with German brands in terms of refinement. Although if it's flagships, I'll still pick the venerable S-class over the LS. I've been in driven in both cars and there's really something about the S-class that's simply magic ;)

For premium compacts, 3-series ako.
For premium executive sedans, E-class or the GS (been in one and I'll say, the added refinement of the generational change is simply wow)
For the big boss, S-Class bar none.
For the vroom vroom, Liberty Walk's RocketBunny M3.
For the balls-nuts-horsies, C63
For the grand tourer, 6-series.

Of course, if you're looking for prestige and driving dynamics and can afford 7M, it's "hello porsche" time!

**speed_kills** · September 15th, 2013 01:53 PM

With prestige, I agree with jhnkvn. People who think of "glorified Camrys" are probably those who don't know much about cars. I take being associated with Toyota as an assurance of quality and don't mind buying a Lexus second hand.

In terms of driving dynamics, I think the latest generation Lexus cars have done very well and you can see many positive reviews on the new GS and IS.

There are many really nice European cars but they really do break down faster compared to Japanese cars and price difference is just too big to ignore nowadays.

For example, with the new IS350 F-Sport at 3M pesos, you can only get a base BMW or Mercedes with much less performance and luxury amenities

**niky** · September 15th, 2013 02:12 PM

Well, the ES350 is basically a Camry. One with a longer wheelbase and a (much) nicer interior. Just as the Hyundai Azera is a bigger, more luxurious Sonata.

The LS has always been a great car. In terms of driving dynamics... who cares about driving dynamics in a limousine? All the focus on "driving dynamics" does is make cars less comfortable on the road.

But in terms of dynamics, the IS is now the match of the 3-series in almost every way, and is cheaper. Don't know about the GS, yet. There's still something about German cars... well... some of them... but when you're paying that much less for something that is already pretty nice... and pretty reliable... who cares about the extra snob appeal?

**imperialv** · September 15th, 2013 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by niky

Well, the ES350 is basically a Camry. One with a longer wheelbase and a (much) nicer interior. Just as the Hyundai Azera is a bigger, more luxurious Sonata.

The LS has always been a great car. In terms of driving dynamics... who cares about driving dynamics in a limousine? All the focus on "driving dynamics" does is make cars less comfortable on the road.

But in terms of dynamics, the IS is now the match of the 3-series in almost every way, and is cheaper. Don't know about the GS, yet. There's still something about German cars... well... some of them... but when you're paying that much less for something that is already pretty nice... and pretty reliable... who cares about the extra snob appeal?

The new es is based on the avalon not the camry anymore. Unless, the avalon and the camry shared the same platform.

**viper888** · September 15th, 2013 02:18 PM

Lexus are seen as the 'Japanese Mercedes" basically promoting comfort and reliability over handling and driving enjoyment. However Mercedes has moved away and have started building cars with sharp handling, albeit inferior to BMW.

BMW's most important car is the 3-Series. It's their best seller, superior to anything Merc/Lexus/Audi makes (the only reason the IS350 is better here is that it costs the same as a 318d with twice the power thanks to JPEPA).

So Basically:

Mercedes: Big cars such as the S-Class, E-Class, and the SL
BMW: Small tight handling cars such as the 1-Series, 3-Series, Z4
Lexus: Subtle luxury cars, usually chauffeur driven,
Jaguar: Not Subtle luxury cars
Audi: errrrrr.......... (It doesn't snow here)

**speed_kills** · September 15th, 2013 08:33 PM

As a complete package, I think the IS350 blows away the sport sedan competition and nothing comes close at least in our market.

But in the mid sized catelgory, the gap between GS350 and BMW/MB is less and a buyer may have other priorities over power/driving dynamics. Lexus has the ES350 to fill this space but as niky mentioned, it may lack street cred to some.

By the way, not sure how true but a friend mentioned that Lexus is planning to have factory installed navigation in their local line up by next year.

**imperialv** · September 15th, 2013 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by speed_kills

As a complete package, I think the IS350 blows away the sport sedan competition and nothing comes close at least in our market.

But in the mid sized catelgory, the gap between GS350 and BMW/MB is less and a buyer may have other priorities over power/driving dynamics. Lexus has the ES350 to fill this space but as niky mentioned, it may lack street cred to some.

By the way, not sure how true but a friend mentioned that Lexus is planning to have factory installed navigation in their local line up by next year.

The IS350 has a factory installed navi.

**x_outpost** · September 15th, 2013 09:37 PM

The issue I have with Lexus is this. Their designers, engineers and management are the same people who designs, engineers and manage Toyota.
That means three things, one: they need to make Toyota look cheaper to make Lexus look more luxurious (that is why the Koreans catched up so easily because they make their cars more expensive looking), two: they need to design Toyotas uglier than Lexus (I don't think cheap should equal ugly, again, look at the Korean brands, they are priced at par with Toyota but they are designed much better than Toyotas), and three: in order to make money on Lexus, they have to share parts between the two brands (i.e. engines, platform, interior bits and even the basic body, etc).

And that brings these questions, when a Lexus car or SUV comes out on the market, how much parts is shared with their Toyota counterpart? Is that car or SUV really designed to have a Toyota badge or Lexus? When they design an interior to be used on both brands, they slap a fancy leather on the Lexus to make it more expensive looking - is that interior design for Toyota or Lexus? When they share an engine for both brands, is that engine designed to be a Toyota (which is obviously priced cheaper) or a Lexus (which is sold as a luxury brand)?

Note: no offense to Toyota or Lexus owners. I owned both in the past and I'd rather spend my money on a car engineered to be a specific brand and that is the reason why I sold my Audis since VW shares parts with VWs, Audis, Bentleys, etc. But the upside of Audi is this, they are totally separate from VW group. They have their own designers, engineers and management - they only share parts.

**imperialv** · September 16th, 2013 09:14 AM

Just sharing guys...

Our LC200 is using TMGO (toyota motor genuine oil) full synthetic cost 600.00++ per liter provided by toyota dealer.

Our 2013 ES350 is using LMGO (lexus motor genuine oil) full synthetic 1K+++.. Per liter provided by Lexus Manila.

Will it hurt if i use tmgo in our lexus.. :-) or may effect talaga ang branding sa price.