Detailing Thread [For Newbies][continued 2]

**indiej** · January 19th, 2011 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Louga

yun 476, kelangan ko paba ng ibang wax before eapply ito or after car wash (natuyo na) good na eapply?

wala naman. kung unang lagay ng wax, clay tsaka prewax cleaner ka muna.

pag wax monthly, ok lang patong na agad to don sa existing 476 or need ko paba tanggalin muna yun existing wax? "After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint." - anong ibig mong sabihin dito? sorry hindi ko magets kasi hindi pa ako naka DIY wax ever since hehehe.

patong agad. tatlo hanggang apat na buwan yung tanggal lahat o kung hindi na makinis at di mo na maremedyohan ito.

parang kulang..
Even if there's a garage, your applied wax or sealant will have to deal with watermarks/waterspots in less than a month. And those will be all over your car. After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint.
ayan..
sa madaling salita, pagnagka watermarks, kailangan mo itong linisin pagkahugas ng kotse. hmmn maiksi din naman pala kahit sa filipino.

waxed for the very first time pala ;). pero kung di ka naman todong OC, malaki na ang kabutihan ng pagwax kaysa sa iba na hugas lang talaga.

**umi001** · January 19th, 2011 06:25 PM

Very interesting threads below on layering of waxes and sealants:

layering of waxes
layering of sealants

The person doing the testing used scientific equipment which can measure down to sub-nanometer level to determine if waxes and sealants layer, and if they do, how many you can add before adding anymore would be a waste of product.

General conclusions (if I've understood the results correctly) are that:

Adding a second layer of wax can have a positive effect, but mainly because it ensures that the surface has an even coating of wax - i.e., the first layer may not be completely even, so the second layer ensures that these "valleys" get properly coated.
It is important to adhere to drying times - i.e., ensure that the wax does haze and dry before buffing it off.
Adding additional layers of wax beyond the first two do not provide any benefit - in fact, because of the need to buff these layers, you actually reduce the thickness of the wax that you previously applied!
Sealants do not seem to layer at all.

Of course, the results do need to be taken in the proper context - the tests were done on silicon wafers (used due to their incredible flatness) rather than metal with paint and clearcoat, and different sealants may have different properties from the ones tested; nonetheless, a very interesting read, and it shows that you shouldn't overdo things, as doing so can actually be counterproductive.

Oh yes, take a look at the thickness of the sealants and waxes that remain - just 20nm! (20 nanometers is 1/50th of a micron, and a micron is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.) This supports the idea that the biggest part of detailing is about the preparation of the surface, rather than what we place on top.

**umi001** · January 19th, 2011 06:44 PM

A video of water bouncing off a carbon nanotube array:

Imagine if we could have a sealant made out of this material - you'd have the water drops flying off your car anytime it rains

**Chikselog** · January 19th, 2011 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by umi001

Oh yes, take a look at the thickness of the sealants and waxes that remain - just 20nm! (20 nanometers is 1/50th of a micron, and a micron is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.) This supports the idea that the biggest part of detailing is about the preparation of the surface, rather than what we place on top.

Is this after layering? O kapag bagong apply pa lang ng sealant/wax (I mean 1st use pa lang)?

**indiej** · January 19th, 2011 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by umi001

Very interesting threads below on layering of waxes and sealants:

layering of waxes
layering of sealants
..

nice find. a step closer to the truth. levelled coverage is the average result. just a rewax after the next wash will do.

kudos for reading the entire DTfN series.

**Louga** · January 19th, 2011 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by indiej

wala naman. kung unang lagay ng wax, clay tsaka prewax cleaner ka muna.

patong agad. tatlo hanggang apat na buwan yung tanggal lahat o kung hindi na makinis at di mo na maremedyohan ito.

parang kulang..
Even if there's a garage, your applied wax or sealant will have to deal with watermarks/waterspots in less than a month. And those will be all over your car. After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint.
ayan..
sa madaling salita, pagnagka watermarks, kailangan mo itong linisin pagkahugas ng kotse. hmmn maiksi din naman pala kahit sa filipino.

waxed for the very first time pala ;). pero kung di ka naman todong OC, malaki na ang kabutihan ng pagwax kaysa sa iba na hugas lang talaga.

maraming salamat po.

**umi001** · January 20th, 2011 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Chikselog

Is this after layering? O kapag bagong apply pa lang ng sealant/wax (I mean 1st use pa lang)?

The first layer was from 16 to 22 nm, while the second one, after allowing the wax to cure, was 15 to 27 nm. So it's really a very thin shell of wax that's being left behind. Also, notice that there was a drop in wax thickness for one of the test wafers after the second application - this was a result of buffing the wax before it was completely dry:

Results: Adding a second layer

The four wafers measured yesterday had another coat of Collinite no 915 applied using a damp microfibre cloth (pretty nearly 24 hours after first coat)
The new layer was buffed off wafer 1 after about 5 minutes.
I could see that wafer 1 was obviously not completely dry when buffed, so I gave the other wafers another 5 minutes to fully dry, which may explain the results below.
The rig used ensures that the wafers are remeasured in the same position as for the first layer.

Wafer 1:
Thickness after first application: 22.7 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 18.8 nm
Difference:- - 3.9 nm

Wafer 2:
Thickness after first application: 20.6 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 23.8 nm
Difference:- +2.2 nm

Wafer 3:
Thickness after first application: 15.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 25.0 nm
Difference:- +9.1 nm

Wafer 4:
Thickness after first application: 16.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 27.8 nm
Difference:- +10.9 nm

OK, it is hard to draw dramatic conclusiuons from a short study but it seems that it is more important to let the second layer dry properly than the first layer (remember the first layer on wafer 4 was buffed off immediately).
Also, ignoring wafer 1 for the moment, it seems that the thinner layers gained most from the second layer.

And here are the results of adding a third layer:

Now I applied a third layer with the damp microfibre, waited 10 minutes and buffed with a clean, dry microfibre cloth.
To make it easier to compare, I show the results above once more, along with the new thicknesses.

Wafer 1:
Thickness after first application: 22.7 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 18.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 15.3 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 22.1 nm

Wafer 2:
Thickness after first application: 20.6 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 23.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 22.5 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 17.0 nm

Wafer 3:
Thickness after first application: 15.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 25.0 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 24.9 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 20.1 nm

Wafer 4:
Thickness after first application: 16.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 27.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 26.7 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 21.5 nm

The results were a bit surprising; wafer1 gained, but the other three lost thickness!

Here are the links to the particular posts:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...7&postcount=44
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...5&postcount=50

**scharnhorst** · January 20th, 2011 08:31 AM

*umi001: nice seeing you here

that's a very technical approach to detailing!

*bombit, PSI: mga ser kelan na next EB? hehe.

**kerikzb** · January 20th, 2011 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by PSI

HOY!!! musta na doc!!! I believe POLISHING ang next session..... para magamit mga makina ninyo...... no exact date pa.... we are cooking something

hehehe!! yung jet seal...... ano yun hehehe!! ayus lang... post ko mamaya pics.....

sana makasama ako sa niluluto niyo sir. :D

**umi001** · January 20th, 2011 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by scharnhorst

*umi001: nice seeing you here

that's a very technical approach to detailing!

*bombit, PSI: mga ser kelan na next EB? hehe.

Heh, starting to post here after finishing reading the 3 threads

I found it very interesting, because uses scientific analysis to help verify - or disprove - some of the things we read and hear about. I actually stumbled upon those threads while reading up on the durability of OCW