TVR cars

[architect]

^^ sir Architect ... I envy you for your "anger management skills" hehehe

maybe the thread could be locked ?!?

Oh, I am not angry at all. More of disappointed.

We try reaching out to have a healthy discussion. Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, we are rebuffed.

This made me realize there is no point in discussing anything here. After all, our fight is not against those who don't believe in what we are doing but in the conditions that we are trying to rectify.

Of what use will it be to us if we win the "battle" here only to lose sight of our more important objectives. For me, let them have this forum. We can exist elsewhere. After all, we will succeed or fail because of ourselves and not because someone else thinks one way or another.

[Phoenix67]

^^ agree!!!

[ghosthunter]

And just what makes the great designer confident? It is from years and years of practice, of unbridled experimentation, of finding out what works and what does not work, by constantly pushing the envelope – never minding if occasionally a resultant design is not implementable. It is the experience, the knowledge that comes with experimentation that matters. For when the time comes, it is the same experience, the same knowledge that will push the designer to greater heights. This Tsikot design subforum was conceived to be just the platform for unbridled experimentation. So frankly I can’t understand why a lot of fuss is being made about all the designs. For God’s sake, they are just design exercises.

Design exercises in where the designers do not learn anything new.

Design exercises in where the designers cry foul when someone criticizes the work he posts to the public.

Design exercises in where it doesn't lead to any development or evolution of design.

You said it yourself, experimentation & practice. Where is that part? It has been YEARS since this started yet all we see are just more drawings that look like cardboard box models or Tamiya model toy cars.

Frankly, people will get sick and tired of the same thing, over and over. Without moving forward nor anything to show for it.

Unfortunately, it seems you have missed the reason why you guys are getting rebuffed recently after years of either support or silence from the members of tsikot.com.

Dreaming is good but going around and showing your latest design like some kindergarden child showing of his latest crayon drawing, it does get tiring of hearing the same old story and excuses being used.

Design is good but it has to lead to its natural conclusion of either getting tossed into the trash bin or leading to an actual product being developed.

[uls]

As for business experience, who among the naysayers have managed a multi-million dollar company? Who has started up a company with less than $700 and in less than five years achieved annual sales of more than $100 million? Who has actually published papers on the automotive industry not only locally but overseas? Who has built his own car and is actually using it? Who has won entrepreneurial awards? Our members have done and achieved these. What about you? It is so easy to make criticisms from the comfort of one’s armchair but it takes brains and guts to go out and actually do things the better way. At least we are not afraid to fail.

a group of such highly qualified, highly successful, highly intelligent, highly educated, and i assume, wealthy people working together...

impressive

one would expect people of that caliber to come up with a car that will rival (no, not rival, BEAT) the Japanese, Koreans, Europeans and Americans

but they are still drawing it

so let's wait till past 2012

[OyiL]

Design exercises in where the designers do not learn anything new.

Design exercises in where the designers cry foul when someone criticizes the work he posts to the public.

Design exercises in where it doesn't lead to any development or evolution of design.

You said it yourself, experimentation & practice. Where is that part? It has been YEARS since this started yet all we see are just more drawings that look like cardboard box models or Tamiya model toy cars.

Frankly, people will get sick and tired of the same thing, over and over. Without moving forward nor anything to show for it.

Unfortunately, it seems you have missed the reason why you guys are getting rebuffed recently after years of either support or silence from the members of tsikot.com.

Dreaming is good but going around and showing your latest design like some kindergarden child showing of his latest crayon drawing, it does get tiring of hearing the same old story and excuses being used.

Design is good but it has to lead to its natural conclusion of either getting tossed into the trash bin or leading to an actual product being developed.

latest drawing being shown around: meron ba nito? GH, san mo nakita yung drawing?

[OyiL]

a group of such highly qualified, highly successful, highly intelligent, highly educated, and i assume, wealthy people working together...

san galing yan? sinabi ba yan? ang alam ko nakalagay dun "what about you?"

[architect]

Design exercises in where the designers do not learn anything new.

I am not sure if we are in a position to judge that. Only the designers can truly say whether they have learned something during the process. And they don't exactly have to proclaim to the world that they have learned or achieved something.

Design exercises in where the designers cry foul when someone criticizes the work he posts to the public.

This I have to agree unless the criticisms are directed at their personality/character, which would then be foul.

Design exercises in where it doesn't lead to any development or evolution of design.

That is why they are called exercises. At least this is what I know when I was taking up both my undergraduate and graduate degrees in Architecture. You undertake design exercises to find out your limitations,to find out what you are capable of creating, to define your design primitives, to extend your design vocabulary, to refine your design grammar. Not to change the world, for God's sake! If this were the case, then no design student would ever pass any course involving design exercises, much less esquisses.

You said it yourself, experimentation & practice. Where is that part? It has been YEARS since this started yet all we see are just more drawings that look like cardboard box models or Tamiya model toy cars.

I think there is a big disparity in how we view this subforum. For us, this subforum was created for the experimentation and practice of individual Tsikot members and not necessarily for the design group. If you noticed, a lot of members who are not part of the core group have in fact been posting their creations, which for the most part did not reflect our own designs. Outsiders, on the other hand, have been expecting the core group to post our progressive designs. Which, unfortunatley, never happened. Simply because we have never viewed the subforum as the place to report any progress.

Thus the outsiders' expectations do not exactly match up with our own priorities and progress. Not knowing any better, outsiders have been expecting progressive drawings while we were researching and analyzing the industry infrastructure. Do you honestly want us to bore you with statistics and charts?

Bottom line though is what is the rationale of the outsiders in demanding us to submit a progress report? Are they paying us?

Frankly, people will get sick and tired of the same thing, over and over. Without moving forward nor anything to show for it.

Of course you will be sick and tired the way you will when you go to the cemetery and expect the dead to rise up. Because I doubt very much if we will ever report to the outsiders. After all we don't owe anyone anything.

I can understand the curiosity. Unfortunately, outsiders are just that - outsiders. If they can't deal with it, I'm sorry. It is beyond my control.

Unfortunately, it seems you have missed the reason why you guys are getting rebuffed recently after years of either support or silence from the members of tsikot.com.

It ain't years. From day one there have been a lot of naysayers.

At any rate my invitation posted here was to have an inuman session to resolve the personality conflicts as they were escalating, not a direct invite to join the group. That is not my decision to make.

And you make it sound like the project has been going on for decades when it can still be measured in months.

Dreaming is good but going around and showing your latest design like some kindergarden child showing of his latest crayon drawing, it does get tiring of hearing the same old story and excuses being used.

Real designers appreciate the fundamentals of lateral thinking in design exercises. Until one can appreciate and truly experience the intricacies of the design process only then will one be able to understand why there can be no definite expectations for design exercises.

As to the quality of the designs posted, I guess even you have to agree we have no control over the level of designers who post. Are we going to be cruel and stop a newbie designer from posting just because his works are not up to par?

Design is good but it has to lead to its natural conclusion of either getting tossed into the trash bin or leading to an actual product being developed.

Properly done, design exercises lead to the extension of the design vocabulary and the enhancement of the design grammar - not necessarily in tangible designs. These developments will obviously be invisible to the non-designer, who will automatically erroneously conclude that no progress has been achieved insofar as the exercise itself is concerned.


GH, this will be my last post re this matter. There is simply no point in extending a useless debate. In reading your posts and replying to them, it became clear to me the root of all this misunderstanding is the disparity in how the two groups view this subforum. Hopefully I am right as that would mean it is in reality a trivial matter.

At any rate you can have the last word. I have far too much respect for your family to let it degenerate unnecessarily. Besides, I believe the readers can read all the points we have made and presumably you will be making and decide on their own. And as I have stated previously, our fight is not against those who don't believe in us but rather against the conditions that we want to rectify. And my post here is not intended to start a protracted debate but rather to determine what is the root of all this heated discussion. Having determined that, I am actually satisfied and would rather call it a day.

Have a good one then. Peace.

[Helios]

*ghosthunter and *uls,

you reckon this thread should've been locked down a long time ago? or possibly the entire thread relating to design and phuv stuff. it takes two to tango, kailangang merong agreement bet camps one way or the other, lest no point posting anything "that relates to the thread" kung personalan lang ang mangyayari, di ba mga bossing?

admin should step in and resolve the issue, kindly please.

[architect]

one would expect people of that caliber to come up with a car that will rival (no, not rival, BEAT) the Japanese, Koreans, Europeans and Americans

but they are still drawing it

so let's wait till past 2012

Just wondering what basis do you have to conclude that that is our objective?

I know it is difficult being an outsider trying to peer behind curtained windows. Just ask hein or marg. But don't make the situation worse by assuming things. I would suggest you back-read the various threads in this subforum - that is if your patience matches your curiosity - before forming conclusions.

Let me make just one thing clear - as an outsider - your expectations of what our group is supposed to undertake and achieve are simply way off the mark. Best you read my response to GH in this thread. Hopefully things will clear up for you.

Good day.

[architect]

Well, unless there is a reason to be back, I am done here.

Those who need to contact me, you know how.

At any rate, I will be seeing you soon.