The 2010 MVDP: Feat. the "Filipino Car" or Philippine Brand Vehicles

[niky]

The question is until when shall we allow second hand imported CBUs? Especially if data shows that its killing the local auto industry slowly and surely..

Here's the sticking point we got stuck on before.

The data only shows that many people are registering imported vehicles or commercial vehicles that have been converted (taxis). They do not show that these people chose them over locally-assembled brand-new units.

Kaya nga, the question is: If that person didn't buy a secondhand Subic Pajero or Delica... would they have bought a brand new Jeepney or a brand new Pajero? Or would they just buy a local secondhand. (and remember... local secondhands maintain their prices, even if Subic or Cagayan units are available, so the idea that those units affect the resale value of local units is a wash).

Buyers who buy a surplus Pajero aren't the same buyers who'd buy a brand-new L300 FB. Delica buyers maybe, but buyers who want an FB for commercial use would more likely buy a used local FB, since these are available for much less than imported Delicas.

No formal study has been done to show what these buyers' considerations were. Some surveys have shown that these buyers wouldn't buy new, anyway. I'd actually be interested to find out, really, if the government were to sponsor a survey, what's really happening.

The MVDP is designed to curtail smuggling of second hand CBUs and limits the legit importation of second hand vehicles.

To answer the problem that might possibly arise out of the reduction of second hand imports, MVPMAP for instance is clamoring for government incentives in the production of cheaper models of brand new utility vehicles made in the country.

Thats why the BEEP and the Micro bus are not yet released pending the incentives to be given to new locally made PBV vehicles. I have also posted an article with Mitsubishi planning to come up with other utility vehicles under the PBV program. They have mentioned (aside from the BEEP) the L300 FB as their entry.

Strangely, the L300 FB is already one of the best-selling cars on the market... why would it need government incentives?

In other words the PBV will make brand new utility vehicles affordable to the public and will eventually replace (gradually) old vehicles.

Price is the problem. And convincing people to buy brand new instead of secondhand, in the first place. There's a market for brand new, but volume is a limiting factor.

Also, the program of the government of replacing old engines of jeepneys is still existing. Old diesel engines will be replaced with LPG powered engines.

David motors is also promoting the conversion of old jeepney engines with brand new LPG powered engines which are cheaper than diesel engines.

While I'm pro-LPG, I'm a bit wary of this program, not knowing the source of these engines and their possible long-term durability. Though getting a lot of those polluting old diesels off the road is a good thing.

[OyiL]

kaya ko nasabi wala ka conviction

aside from past examples, this is the latest example of your weak conviction

madali ka ma-sway

mula nung nalaman mo nasa Japan used import sector ako, naging todo anti-Japan used ka

nakalimutan mo yata may sasakyan ka na Japan used ang makina

tapon mo na yan para di ka hypocrite

panindigan mo stand mo

ngayon todo anti-Japan used ka, huwag mo ipagmamalaki ang mga ethnic na sasakyan

kasi lahat yan japan used ang makina

yung mga AUV na ginagawa sa iloilo or whatever province

kung hindi brand new ang mga makina at piesa ng mga yan, huwag mo ipagmalaki from now on

coz now, you are totally anti-Japan used and totally pro-brand new

which is why they called you anti poor

dude

ang focus ng mvdp is to stop the importation of used vehicles. vehicles ha. yung completely assembled. exempted dyan yung mga special vehicles na binanggit ni niky at yung mga personal vehicles ng mga diplomats. pag-naayos na yung batas na yan, at lahat agree, special vehicles na lang ang mabebenta mo uls. pero dahil pwede pa rin yung used engine at used parts, i-chop-chop mo na yung mga merchandise mo. dapat i-define nila yung ibig sabihin ng complete vehicle. dahil pag pinasok mo ng walang gulong, technically, di na complete vehicle yun. siguro dapat ...walang engine, walang gulong, walang pinto, etc..etc,. para makapagbenta ka pa rin. at para meron pa ring parts para sa mga lumang sasakyan.

[jpdm]

The proof is clear as day to anyone to review the threads.

You were denouncing all imported surplus vehicles and parts.

You don't argue. You impose your theoretical ideals. And if anyone raises a question or counters with the reality how the world works, that person is suddenly declared "evil" and working for the devil himself.

Discuss? Yet when people point out the problems in that "article", you simply declare them as "smugglers" and what have you.

Of course their are proofs that you are just concocting conclusions based on your faulty understanding of my stand. Definitely like uls,

Im denouncing all imported smuggled vehicles and parts. You forgot the smuggled term. Unless you are trying to deliberately omitting it to prove your point.

Have you read my explanations regarding the articles and my corresponding comments? They were meant to express my opinion. And Im not forcing anyone and myself to argue about it.

Im letting people to read it and react about it.

Im imposing theoretical ideas? Obviously you cant distinguish what is theoretical and not theoretical in my posts.

besides Im not the one imposing ideas in Tsikot. You are.


You are not even moderating. In fact you are harassing posters like me.

You said a person is evil or devil? Are you making a spin again or inventing
stories again ghosthunter?


I simply declare them as smugglers?Did I do that? You are really good in inventing stories ghosthunter. Read my posts carefully.

[jpdm]

Here's the sticking point we got stuck on before.

The data only shows that many people are registering imported vehicles or commercial vehicles that have been converted (taxis). They do not show that these people chose them over locally-assembled brand-new units.

Kaya nga, the question is: If that person didn't buy a secondhand Subic Pajero or Delica... would they have bought a brand new Jeepney or a brand new Pajero? Or would they just buy a local secondhand. (and remember... local secondhands maintain their prices, even if Subic or Cagayan units are available, so the idea that those units affect the resale value of local units is a wash).

Buyers who buy a surplus Pajero aren't the same buyers who'd buy a brand-new L300 FB. Delica buyers maybe, but buyers who want an FB for commercial use would more likely buy a used local FB, since these are available for much less than imported Delicas.

No formal study has been done to show what these buyers' considerations were. Some surveys have shown that these buyers wouldn't buy new, anyway. I'd actually be interested to find out, really, if the government were to sponsor a survey, what's really happening.

But these do not change the fact that smuggled second hands are negatively affecting the local auto industry. As I have pointed out many times in this thread using various articles with resource persons coming from the auto sector itself.

Its very clear.

Strangely, the L300 FB is already one of the best-selling cars on the market... why would it need government incentives?

Prices will be further reduced.

Price is the problem. And convincing people to buy brand new instead of secondhand, in the first place. There's a market for brand new, but volume is a limiting factor.

Thats the reason why incentives will be given by the government (through MVDP) to local assemblers to produce utility CKDs that are affordable.

While I'm pro-LPG, I'm a bit wary of this program, not knowing the source of these engines and their possible long-term durability. Though getting a lot of those polluting old diesels off the road is a good thing.

The government has already allotted money through DBP for the purchase of brand new engines using clean gas i.e LPG, CNG..

David Motors, a jeepney maker also is in the conversion of diesel to LPG because its cheaper and cleaner.

[niky]

No arguments re: utility and LPG.

But these do not change the fact that smuggled second hands are negatively affecting the local auto industry. As I have pointed out many times in this thread using various articles with resource persons coming from the auto sector itself.

And their only source of data is new vehicle registrations. Ever wonder why they don't present a study on buyer profiles or a breakdown of what cars make up that mix? How many of those registrations of "new" vehicles that are used as commercial vehicles and which are not covered by government exemption? That would be telling.

Take note:

I do not support a ban on the importation of secondhand vehicles. Instead, I would push for the proper implementation of taxes on secondhands and stringent roadworthiness tests. This would kill any claim that imports are killing the market.

How?

Take a SUV-ic Pajero. How much does it cost? Pennies.

And yet, if you apply the proper taxes, (100% luxury tax based on brand new price, considering it's an import), force converters to use brand new LHD conversion parts and force it to undergo roadworthiness testing (ala UK or Japan), it'll cost 1.5 million pesos. Who'd buy it then over a local unit costing half that?

And yet the government allowed these cars in, with loopholes because they were declared salvage, or under-declared. Customs didn't go by their book value, so they snuck in.

And the LTO and LTFRB don't do their job in keeping dangerous old trucks ,buses and jeeps off our street. If they simply impounded all the non-roadworthy vehicles, our public fleets would gradually become more modern. Simply impound all RHD-LHD conversions that use RHD racks welded in on the wrong side of the car and you'll take thousands of imports off the street.

Just look at the taxi fleets and how they improved after they cracked down on the "rolling coffins".

It merely takes proper enforcement to improve the situation, not more laws. My beef with the whole thing is they're wasting so much time and energy on legislation, when it's spending more money on proper implementation that's the problem.

(Of course, lawmakers, being as they are, would rather make more laws than fix the problems that exist... like the move to 12 years of basic education being pushed by P.Noy... we don't even have enough teachers for our current 10 year system... and, as us teachers know... the problem isn't the number of years, but the lack of investment in manpower and teaching materials that is holding us back...)

[jpdm]

Sus me sarili ka ngang mundo... Get real :gayfight:

Hahaha..obviously walang masabing matino. Saan nga ba mundo mo? Di mo nga alam kung ang smuggled vehicle nare-rehistro....


By the way natanong mo na ba ang LTFRB tungkol sa plano nilang higpitan ang requirements sa mga PUJ? Ay oo nga pala katulad ka ng mga idol mo dito galing mag-project.wala naman.

You get real too.:gayfight:

[jpdm]

hanggang ngayon di parin nagets

slow talaga eto

hindi sa smuggling articles nag umpisa ang pag tawag nila sayo ng anti poor

nag umpisa yan sa PUJ replacement article, yung Beep

diba ikaw ang numero unong supporter ng mga ethnic na sasakyan? (somebody pls post a link to the thread kung saan nagpost si jpdm nga mga pix ng PUJs that he's so proud of)

why didnt you come to the defense of your pathetic PUJs that are being threatened with extinction by stricter govt regulations?

alam mo baket?

masyado napunta ang loob mo sa mga new-car-makers

dahil sa tindi ng galit mo sa Japan used

so kahit pwede ma-outlaw ang PUJs at i-replace ng new mini buses made my Mitsubishi/Almazora, wala kang comment

kaya tinawag ka nila anti poor

coz you're on the side of the new-car-makers who stand to benefit from the abolition of the PUJ

gets mo na?

o kailangan pa ulitin sayo SLOWLY?

O nagproject ka naman.

Hirap talagang makipag debate rito sa makulit na ito. Hina naman umintindi.

Mas slow ka kasi hindi mo inintindi mabuti nakasulat sa article. Sana lang galing galingan mo conclusion mo. E hindi mali mali interpretasyon mo.

Basahin mo nga uli yung article para naman tumama ng konti mga sinasabi mo.

Sinabi lang ba ng article na Beep lang ipapalit? nabasa mo ba na mapipilitang bumili rin ng bagong PUJ mga operator?O isaayos luma nilang sasakyan?Para sumunod sa standards ng LTFRB?

In the first place, kahit naman suporta ko native jeepneys kailangan naman upgrade nila ang units nila. By coming up with new standards ( LTFRB) jeepney operators will be force to upgrade or maintain their vehicles.

Not necessary replace them by BEEP.

Naintindihan mo. Slow ka talaga.

Basahin mo uli ang article ha. Nang-iinsulto kapa e mas slow ka.

[uls]

Oyil:

ahhhhh...ang pagkakaintindi ni uls dito ay immediate palit lahat ng mga jeepney in favor of the mitsu beep and the isuzu passenger truck . ganun ba ang ibig sabihin ni jpdm?

read the article (nasa page 26)

mukang di mo nabasa mabuti

saan mo nakuha yung Isuzu passenger truck?

the article says the Beep has a Mitsubishi Canter platform with a bus body built by Almazora

[uls]

O nagproject ka naman.

Hirap talagang makipag debate rito sa makulit na ito. Hina naman umintindi.

Mas slow ka kasi hindi mo inintindi mabuti nakasulat sa article. Sana lang galing galingan mo conclusion mo. E hindi mali mali interpretasyon mo.

Basahin mo nga uli yung article para naman tumama ng konti mga sinasabi mo.

Sinabi lang ba ng article na Beep lang ipapalit? nabasa mo ba na mapipilitang bumili rin ng bagong PUJ mga operator?O isaayos luma nilang sasakyan?Para sumunod sa standards ng LTFRB?

In the first place, kahit naman suporta ko native jeepneys kailangan naman upgrade nila ang units nila. By coming up with new standards ( LTFRB) jeepney operators will be force to upgrade or maintain their vehicles.

Not necessary replace them by BEEP.

Naintindihan mo. Slow ka talaga.

Basahin mo uli ang article ha. Nang-iinsulto kapa e mas slow ka.

sabi ni jpdm:

Sinabi lang ba ng article na Beep lang ipapalit? nabasa mo ba na mapipilitang bumili rin ng bagong PUJ mga operator?O isaayos luma nilang sasakyan?Para sumunod sa standards ng LTFRB?

from the article (page 26):

Alberto Suansing, chairman of the Land Transportation Franchising and Regulatory Board, made the statement at the launching of the Beep, a combination bus and jeep, as an alternative to the jeepney, a modified version of the Jeep used by the US military during World War II.

Suansing said jeepney owners failing to comply with the new rules should start thinking of buying brand-new replacements—including the Beep.

^^^

clear govt endorse of the Beep

--

the new regulations are deliberately set too strict for PUJs to meet

they know a large number of PUJs can't meet the new standards

they are expecting 50% of PUJs to fail

“The [Land Transportation Office] has come up with new regulations on the inspection of motor vehicles, and we expect many public utility vehicles will not meet the requirements,” Suansing said.

“I would say almost 50 percent of the jeepney population will be affected.”
The LTO will require public utility vehicles—jeepneys in particular—to have speedometers, hand brakes, headlights and wipers, among other things, according to Joel Donato, head of the agency’s Motor Vehicle Inspection Service.

“We are implementing these requirements with the start of registration in January 2010,” he said.

the plan is to outlaw PUJs by using too-strict regulations

to open up a huge market for new-car-makers

the govt endorsement of the Beep is obvious regulatory capture by the new-car lobby

somebody is too slow to pick up on what's happening behind the scenes

[uls]

for the slow:

wiki:

Regulatory capture occurs when a state regulatory agency created to act in the public interest instead acts in favor of the commercial or special interests that dominate in the industry or sector it is charged with regulating. Regulatory capture is a form of government failure, as it can act as an encouragement for large firms to produce negative externalities. The agencies are called Captured Agencies.