Remote bypass oil filtration

[dvldoc]

I posted this before but I did find a few more places that do oil testing in the Philippines. I would be nice to see what local vehicles are actually doing under the hood. Besides a test is a lot cheaper than running your oil for short intevals not based off of the actual facts of how your oil and filter are performing. This testing will also let you know how that aftermarket air filter is doing as well. And with oil prices as high as you are if you find you can double your oil change intervals it's worth every peso for the testing.


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Central Analytical Services Laboratory (CASL) | University of the Philippines Los Baños


Very good article on oil.

badtziscool.com - Automotive » Oil Analysis and Information

[Quint]

I've been doing some reading on the subject, and given that these are based on empirical evidence, it does makes sense. Believe it, or not.
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STOP STOP STOP!

The ORIGINAL factory APPROVED oil change interval is 30,000 miles! YES 30,000 MILES!!

Did you comprehend that?

THE ORIGINAL OIL CHANGE INTERVAL APPROVAL IS 30,000 MILES!!!

Now that I have that off my chest,

VW reduced the interval from 30,000 miles to 10,000 miles in the US market...any guesses why?

Because people like you either:
1) Can't read the owners manual
2) Don't trust the car makers
3) Can't follow directions
4) Fail to adhere to the service indicator in the car

VW does NOT want oil change intervals of less than 10,000 miles due to how the oils function in the engine, shorter intervals INCREASE WEAR, Don't argue with me about it, if you take the time to track wear rates during an oil change at 250 mile intervals you can plot the reduction and stabilization of the wear rates out beyond 25,000 miles!

Think of oil as having 2 types of wear reducing additives, the first provides protection by/thru detergancy (cleansing of internal surfaces), dispersing soot, neutralizing acids (not an issue now with ULSD), and several other types as well. These additives are generally very specific to diesel engines and must pass specific tests in VW Diesel engines.

The next type of additive is a wear additive. These protect the engine where the thickness of oil may be too thin to prevent metal to metal contact. Other additves in this type range also provide protection to the cam and lifters, engine bearings, piston wrist pins etc.

Now pay attention, the 2nd group of additives account for less than 3% of the total volume of the oil. These additives also account for 90% of the engines oil protection! These additives require heat and pressure to bond with the critical wear surfaces, but due to the low percentage of additive in the oil they require time to fully place on those surfaces by the pressures of the component they are protecting. Example, an engine at operating temperature at the point where the cam presses on the lifter generates in excess of 90,000 psi, that pressure and the heat of the engine causes the 3% portion of the 1 micron thick oil film to form a crust or sacrifical layer at the point of contact. Since only 3% of the oil contains the wear additives, it requires hundreds of thousands of passes to generate a sufficient film to stop the wear at this specific point in the engine.

Everybody is quick to make the arguement that the old oil had these additives so they are already in place, right? not quite!

Remember the first type of additive? In that 1st group you had "detergents" that cleanse the inside of the motor. These cleansers are used up very rapidly after an oil change since they attack the remaining oil that was left after the oil change. These cleansers if you will also reduce the effectiveness of the high pressure wear additives...See where this is going?

Before explaining further, after that initial period the dispersants in the oil work to prevent the adhering of the particles in the oil to any of the internal surfaces. These additives are often unique to diesel engines are also the reason why the oil looks so black so quickly, they are doing their job by preventing the soot from building up in any one place instead they are dispersed in the oil evenly throughout the oil sump which prevents sludging and other contamination related issues.

Back to the detergents and the high pressure additives, the layers of high pressure additives leftover are not being replenished after the oil change due to the cleaning process that is going on with the new oil to neutralize the remaining acids, and other contaminants in the engine. As the cleaners in the oil are used up in the first 500-1000 miles, the wear additives are able to re-generate a protective layer in the engine that stops the wear at that location.

You break down the oils life cycle like this:

Phase 1: Detergants attack the internals removing accumlated contaminants, neutralize acids and force those into suspenstion in the oil. This period of time lasts between 500-1000 miles

Phase 2: During the first 1000 miles the oils viscosity provides the majority of the wear protection by virtue of the film it creates on the surfaces. This phase generates relatively high wear rates but due to the short duration this is accepted due to the removal of contaminants that could result in long term damage to the motor. Wear rates in the period of time are generally speaking 5-10ppm per 1000 miles.

Phase 3: Detergents are now used up and the oil additives are forming their protective layers in the "extreme pressure" regions of the motor. Now the oil additives are working in conjunction with the oil film and the wear rates drop from 10ppm per 1000 miles to around 1-2ppm per 1000 miles.

Phase 4: Longterm peace! The oil is operating in a period of equilibrium, the wear additives are placed, Oil viscosity is in perfect range for the engine, Dispersants are continually working to prevent soot and other contaminants from accumulating on the surfaces and wear rates remain between 1-3ppm per 1000 miles.

Phase 5: Oil run out, the oil during this phase begins to increase in viscosity (or thin in some cases), Extreme pressure additives begin to lose effectiveness due to increased concentrations of wear particles (VW tests out to 8%, most oil changes never see in excess of 2% after 30,000 miles). This is when you begin to see a rise in the wear metal formation in the engine. Often wear metals during this phase rise to the 3-8ppm per 1000 mile range. Notice that the wear metals being generated are still LOWER than they were in the first 1000 miles?

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When somebody says they are going to change the oil every 5000 miles or twice as often they are DOUBLING the number of detergent cycles and DOUBLING the number of cycles where the engine is running at it's highest wear rates!

PPM/Fe (generation of Fe in 1000 mile increments)
Short drain intervals
1K oil change
10ppm = 10ppm in 1000 miles = 10ppm/1000 miles

3K oil change
10+2+2 = 14ppm in 3000 miles = 4.6ppm/1000 miles

5K oil change
10+2+2+2+2: Change oil = 18ppm in 5000 miles = 3.6ppm/1000 miles

Long drain intervals
10K oil change
10+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+3 = 29 ppm in 10,000 miles = 2.9ppm/1000 miles

15K oil change
10+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+3+3+3+3+3+3 = 44ppm in 15,000 miles = 2.9 ppm/1000 miles

20K oil change
10+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+2+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+3+4+4 = 61ppm in 20,000 miles = 3.3ppm/1000 miles

When ppm of Fe per 1000 miles reaches 5-7ppm per 1000 miles you can consider the oil ready for a change...

The above is based on real world TDI oil samples.

I have personally used up to 25,000 mile oil drain intervals on my TDI and still never reached the 5-7ppm range! I changed it at that time due to soot and TBN depletion (high sulfur fuel at the time).

Anybody that tells you that short oil drain intervals are good for your motor don't know what they are talking about!

Source: superturbodiesel.com - tuning performance turbo diesel mercedes, W123, W116 and up. OM617, OM60X

[dvldoc]

While I don't agree with 25,000 mile oil changes without a seriously good oil filtration system, It's not all about the TBN it's about the rest of the wear particles, TAN, and for diesels soot levels. Vehicles in the Philippines are not using ULSD like in the US. So the testing somewhat does not apply. And not only is it not ULSD it's not exactly the cleanest diesel in the world either and tends to foul your oil quicker than it would state side.

Most of this stuff has been covered on anouther thread but this good information you have posted. knowone should blindly run thier oils for over 12000miles/20000kms especially in the Philippines, Remember many people are still using VIC oil filters and other low quality oil fitlers that have nowhere near the efficiency of oil filters found in the US.

And with the number of older diesels with mechanical diesel injection it's really not advisable they are not exaclty efficient when it comes to burning all there diesel and make a lot of soot and carbon. You should only base your oil change intervals off of base line facts then include in the variables as I have pointed out. There are actaully a bunch more but I don't feel like beating a dead horse on this issue.

Every vehicle is different just like the enviorment they operate in and the driving conditions they encounter on a daily basis. A engine oil analysis is key. For instance I can assure you that you will have a much higher silicon count in Metro Manila than most cities in the US due to the pollution (another one of those factors I am talking about).

Once people start to do oil testing and posting some results then Tsikot members will have a true base line to go off of for oil change intervals for there vehicles. But for now 10000km to 12000km is a very safe level when using a quality oil filter, 15000kms is really not pushing it to hard with a Fleetguard or Baldwin filter either. But a VIC no way, your going to have seriours wear count numbers.

Again very good information you have posted. But definetly not applicable to all vehicles in all enviorments in all situations. To many factors are out there.

[glenn manikis]

While I don't agree with 25,000 mile oil changes without a seriously good oil filtration system, It's not all about the TBN it's about the rest of the wear particles, TAN, and for diesels soot levels. Vehicles in the Philippines are not using ULSD like in the US. So the testing somewhat does not apply. And not only is it not ULSD it's not exactly the cleanest diesel in the world either and tends to foul your oil quicker than it would state side.

Most of this stuff has been covered on anouther thread but this good information you have posted. knowone should blindly run thier oils for over 12000miles/20000kms especially in the Philippines, Remember many people are still using VIC oil filters and other low quality oil fitlers that have nowhere near the efficiency of oil filters found in the US.

And with the number of older diesels with mechanical diesel injection it's really not advisable they are not exaclty efficient when it comes to burning all there diesel and make a lot of soot and carbon. You should only base your oil change intervals off of base line facts then include in the variables as I have pointed out. There are actaully a bunch more but I don't feel like beating a dead horse on this issue.

Every vehicle is different just like the enviorment they operate in and the driving conditions they encounter on a daily basis. A engine oil analysis is key. For instance I can assure you that you will have a much higher silicon count in Metro Manila than most cities in the US due to the pollution (another one of those factors I am talking about).

Once people start to do oil testing and posting some results then Tsikot members will have a true base line to go off of for oil change intervals for there vehicles. But for now 10000km to 12000km is a very safe level when using a quality oil filter, 15000kms is really not pushing it to hard with a Fleetguard or Baldwin filter either. But a VIC no way, your going to have seriours wear count numbers.

Again very good information you have posted. But definetly not applicable to all vehicles in all enviorments in all situations. To many factors are out there.

if i change only the oil filter every 5000kms.? pwede na po ba yun?

[miko101130]

Doc, i'll try to have oil analysis so that we can really determine the need for intervals with regards to Phil conditions.

[Si 06]

Doc, i'll try to have oil analysis so that we can really determine the need for intervals with regards to Phil conditions.

It will all depend on how you use the car and what brand of oil you use. Turbo charged cars will require more frequent oil change.

[dvldoc]

if i change only the oil filter every 5000kms.? pwede na po ba yun?

Again factors. It depends on what filter you have, Most quality filters can go 10000kms no problem like Bosch, Real purolators, WIX, Baldwin, Fleetguard, Nippon ect.

VIC it does not matter the interval you change them in, they don't filter worth a crap. Your still missing lots of particles a normal fitler would be catching.

Best to keep these question on the other thread since it's already discussed many times, it's kinda a pain bouncing from thread to thread on the same subject.

[joeasp]

Glad you found the thread, The reason your seeing much cleaner oil is the difference in efficiency the Baldwin is 50% efficient at 12 microns and about 30% at 5 microns. Vic on the other hand is around 5% efficient at 12 microns so I simply cannot keep your oil as clean as the Badwin.

For a service vehicle with a lot of stop and go you I would go at least 8000klm, If you have a service vehicle do the oil analysis and see the status of your oil at 8000klm and you will not only know if you can go ever further on that oil but the condition of your motor. Which is something I would want to check if I had been running a VIC for so long.

hi Doc, yes I'm very glad to have seen this thread and backread it all the way.

The oil is now 4500++ km mileage and looks like like 2500km when I was using the vic filter. The way I look at the oil is that it can reach 8000km. I think I'll will be monitoring the viscosity after 5k km since the oil is just a regular oil and I worried that it will start to breakdown past 5k?? By the way, I test the viscosity using the pour method (using two angle bars placed on same inclined plane) by comparing it with the new oil.

Hopefully I can extend the service life that long as it will be a big savings for my service operation cost.

[joeasp]

Hi 12vdc,

Is that a DIY oil catch can? Where'd you get it? TIA!

it is a cartidge filter body, you can find it at Ace Hardware. Best installed reverse that of the water filtration normal use. Just insert a tube/pipe to direct the flow downwards first before it exits otherwise it'll just short circuit the flow. The objective is for the blowby containing mist will downward until the bottom and when it it flows upward the oil droplets will be left behind by gravitational pull. The longer cartridge the better.

[Ry_Tower]

thanks ry. do you own a gen 3 pajero as well?

Nope, gen 2.