audio set-up for beginners [continued]

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Originally Posted by labuyo73

*jhnkvn

Thanks a lot for taking time to answer my queries. Really, it's quite wonderful learning a lot of things from somebody who obviously has the passion, knowledge and experience on audio and is willing to let others benefit from these. :bowako:

On the full deadening of 2 front doors, audio shop quoted P6,000 for STP and P4,800 for OEM. I'm thinking that for the price difference of P1,200, might as well go with the branded one. Again, thanks!

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Regarding the "full deadening" you need to first know how many sheets will they be using per door. The bigger the door means more surface area which translates to more sheets required.

Now, we have three types of deadeners out in the market that's commonly used.

First are the asphalt-based sheets. These costs around 200-300php per sheet and I do not recommend them in our hot and humid environment. Reason for this is because they melt, expand, contract, and crack depending on the temperature outside. They're usually found in Banawe where a lot of people scrimp out on costs (you do get what you pay for)

Second are the usual butyl OEM deadeners. They're just called OEM deadeners by shop owners but their more specific names are mass-loaded vinyl (MLV) butyl sheets. As for prices, they usually go around 500php per sheet.

Third are the branded ones -- madami dyan from Dynamat, StP, Sonus, Audiomax, etc. Difference between the brands? Not much really. Some of them sandwich butyl with asphalt, some go for butyl and aluminum (StP *cough* *cough*). What does the aluminum do? Well, aesthetics aside it protects the butyl from contacting water which is a worry for doors. But in all seriousness, I don't really recommend them for cash-strapped buyers as OEM butyl deadeners do 98% of what they do.

Now if you noticed, I simply threw in prices of per sheet. Truthfully, meron pa dyan mga installation costs. Some shops do it for free to simply "sell" the product (many of these are, again, in Banawe) because they're a cheap source of revenue. If they buy asphalt-sheets en-masse for example.. they can lower the cost per sheets to around 150php. Throw in that all they need is a couple of minutes and a heatgun, that's a large gross margin as profit. The bigger ones does installation better so they will charge accordingly. Meron din kasi dyan outer layer and inner layers.

For StP, try to see ask what product they're using. The most common is StP silver which is pretty easy to see thanks to their aluminum cover. However, there's also StP Viziomat which is their version of a branded OEM butyl deadener.

At the end of the day, remember the purpose of deadeners is to put weight on your doors -- reason for this is so that it doesn't vibrate as much due to the added mass. It's easy to see the benefits of this in real life naman.. for example you have an interior panel that's vibrating, you hold it and it stops right? Parang ganun rin yun concept ng deadening sa kotse. If you're expecting sound blocking, that's only their secondary function.

Hope this helps you on your purchase... if not, it might give you additional bargaining power thanks to added knowledge :grin:

Hi sir jhnkvn, OT lang po kunti, is deadening can be reduce noise from outside? or is there any particular product like sound proof. medyo hnd yata masyado sealed ung sa monti TIA.

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Originally Posted by MonteroGLSV

Hi sir jhnkvn, OT lang po kunti, is deadening can be reduce noise from outside? or is there any particular product like sound proof. medyo hnd yata masyado sealed ung sa monti TIA.

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To really be "soundproofed" the idea there is to create a "bubble" dividing sound waves inside from the outside (and vice versa). This is why we have rubber gourmets on the edges of office and conference doors, etc. Unfortunately, this is impossible in a car because air will eventually escape thanks to nooks and crannies around the vehicle.

The reason why the likes of Mercedes-Benz, Lexus, etc. are great in quieting their vehicle lies with their attention to detail in creating this seal. For example, Lexus' windows are not just single-glazed but double-glazed to reduce outside noise. Aside from this, their air gaps are much less causing well... if you stepped inside a cabin of LS460.. trust me.. mapaparanoid ka sa tahimik. Throw in an electric hybrid engine and run it on electric.. and it's seriously eerie silent. You'll start redefining your standard for vehicle silence. It's kinda like the engine is off (except it's on) but you have aircon.

If you can't create a bubble, then the next best thing is to try to absorb sound waves much like how they do it in theaters right? BUT the problem with sound proofing is that.. well, you need density.. a lot of them. As pouring concrete isn't really our idea of a car deadener.. most people are stuck with foam "sound deadeners" inside a car. The thing here is that these (foam) are too thin to absorb lower-frequency sound (think: drone of an engine) and would only work for high pitched ones with a smaller wavelength.

If you do want to go the foam route, you'll be looking for a sound deadener called CCFs or closed cell foam. Alternatives to this include foam from Uratex and your everyday rockwool (which you shouldn't inhale btw) :grin:

thanks sir jhnkvn, very informative indeed.

*jhnkvn

I agree, sabi nga ni ka Ernie Baron, "knowledge is power, pag walang knowledge, walang power!"

Hi! Newbie here regarding car audio set-up, kaya paunawa po kung halatang walang alam sa car audio ang tanong ko. May I ask, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a 3-way from 2-way speaker/separates? I am more inclined to an SQ set-up based on the type of music I frequently listen -pop, ballad, acoustic, sometimes rock music pero not heavy metal ones. :)

With that in mind, which would fit my preference, a 3-way set up or a 2-way one would suffice?

Thank you and will appreciate your opinion or advice "tsikot car audio experts!" :-)

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Originally Posted by ETL8888

Hi! Newbie here regarding car audio set-up, kaya paunawa po kung halatang walang alam sa car audio ang tanong ko. May I ask, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a 3-way from 2-way speaker/separates? I am more inclined to an SQ set-up based on the type of music I frequently listen -pop, ballad, acoustic, sometimes rock music pero not heavy metal ones. :)

With that in mind, which would fit my preference, a 3-way set up or a 2-way one would suffice?

Thank you and will appreciate your opinion or advice "tsikot car audio experts!" :-)

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For the speaker configurations, it's pretty easy. Dalawa lang yan:
1. Separates
2. Coaxial

Hopefully, you know these two na. Moving on there's the amount of drivers. The most common among these are the 2 and 3-way configurations.
1. Two way - Tweeter and Midbass
2. Three way - Tweeter, Midrange, and Midbass

There are also four-way configurations such as the inclusion of a subwoofer. However most people usually simply exclude the subwoofers which is why I call my system as a "3-way system" not a 4-way system. Technically speaking, tama yun 4-way though.

The advantages of more drivers (3-way versus 2-way) is that they're superior versus a 2-way if you tune them well. Prime disadvantage is that.. well.. they're way harder to tune. That pretty much sums it up.

The thing about SQ is that it comprises of three things: staging, imaging, and tonality. People know the aspect of tonality which is measured on our ears by how nice it sounds.. but imaging and staging is mostly foreign to people unless they're bred in a musically-inclined family. But unless you have those two, you're not SQ. You're simply good in the tonal aspect.

A 3-way will be more expensive than most of you are expecting. Not only is additional drivers = additional costs but you also have a larger installation budget on them. Most 3-way separate component set starts at 20,000php FYI.

Oh, and a true SQ setup won't really care what you throw at it. I have no such thing as limited to jazz or pop when 70% of my listening tracks are dubstep. But it's like every foreign experience.. unless you've heard a proper SQ car.. you won't know what SQ is.

Panalo ka Sir jhnkvn!

How much budget is enough for a decent SQ setup for my car? Please guide me sir.

Here are my plans:
1. Head Unit = Pioneer 4450BT, Question: Can I go wrong with rhis head unit when it comes to SQ?
2. Separates = GTO609
3. Amps for Separates (I still don't have any ideas, Sound Magus? Etc? ) Can you suggest one?

Thank you sir jhnkvn!

tnx sa post ni jhnkvn about deadening and asphalt material.

Audiomax Pro Damper ang brand na pinainstall ko sa Maizone. Naghahanap ako ng unbranded cheap OEM Butyl wala daw puro asphalt lang from candyshop,c3,jaffaz, etc.

Sir jhnkvn pahelp naman po. Currently meron akong pioneer 2din HU tsaka jbl 12in subs. And kinetic dynamic kd6 seps. I know it may be not good seps. Sabi kasi sakin nung pinagkuhanan ko is maganda un sound niya like higher end brands na daw. Un amplifier ko is lightning lab am480. Kaso nasira na and i need to change it. Kukuha sana ako sa states ng amp kasi uuwi un mom ko. Suggestions naman po sa budget amp. And probably seps na mura and maganda na rin. Siguro un seps around 4-5k.

Eto mga nakita ko na amp. Baka may idea kayo if sulit kung makuha ko sa price niya sa states kasi di ko alam kung magkano sila dito.

JL audio jx360/4 php6500
medyo mahal pero kung malaki ang difference than rockford fosgate and justified un pagkamahal niya over sa iba, then sige.
JL Audio, USA - JX360/4

Rockford fosgate r300x4 around php5000
Rockford Fosgate R300X4 Prime 4-Channel Amplifier:Amazon:Car Electronics